Posted by
LibertyWorld on Sunday, December 14, 2008 3:01:18 PM
I've spent some time posting on a very active, mostly liberal laden forum...
It's great fun, though not always pretty... Sometimes toxic even... It is good exercise...
QUOTE FROM A POSTER THERE:
"Genocide to counter act genocide is a ridiculous idea.
Appeasement does not work.
The blade with which we defend our freedom need not be tainted with threats, nor the blood of an entire nation.
What distortion of history do you subscribe to, where genocide has ever been successful at thwarting "evil"?
Yes, we must defend our selves against our enemies. I am not supporting any of the appeasement or isolationist policies which were used prior to and during the early stages of WWII. However, we should not annihilate entire nations over the idiotic fanatical beliefs of the few.
We are not dealing with some massive army of evil, which shares a single, uniform thought. Rather, we are dealing with individuals who have been brainwashed into following a very messed up ideology. This does not in anyway excuse them from their guilt, as all humans are responsible for their own actions.
We can't pretend that our "enemies" are not human, that they are some nameless, faceless, evil entity. These are real people, just like us. The difference being that they have been force-fed fundamentalist BS since a very young and impressionable age. It is not our responsibility to murder them, but to open up their eyes and show them the world behind the stone walls of oppression.
The general population of the middle-east are not our true enemies. They are merely the proxies, the pawns of the extremist leaders. The solution is to diminish the control of the Religious leaders, and so called "scholars", to show all of the people that their leaders care only for their own power. It would work better for us to help establish, develop and spread democracy into this part of the world. But not forcefully. Arts would help a lot as well. We need to win this war through diplomacy rather than mass murder.
Also they don't all hate us. Try talking to some people in the middle-east, or if that doesn't suit you, watch some documentaries or interviews with the people.
And one last thing: There is no evil in this world, just the actions and ideologies of humanity."
My (now slightly edited) response:
I agree with some of what you say, but not all.
I also appreciate, more than you may assume, the notion of sparing maximum innocent life.
You say the blade need not be tainted with threats?
"Leave us alone or else" is not a dishonorable thing and nothing is "tainted" by such a stand.
On the contrary, anything less would be dishonorable.
If (they) were just like us they would not be brainwashing their children to martyr themselves in violent jihad, would they, because no house but islam is doing that.
I am not advocating genocide or the annihilation of entire nations.
That's what islam (and only islam) is doing.
I am advocating first, fair warning, then if there is a major attack against our people or homeland, a painful response.
Very painful, as in historic.
Simple fair warning first:
"Your top trouble-makers and everything and everyone around them will be obliterated if there is any major attack against our people or homeland. Best to move at least 30 miles away... from all of them... all of them that loudest preach death to, (or sharia law for) the west... Islam's holiest places? Move away or shut the hate-mongering leaders down, now. All of them."
That is not hateful or ignorant or genocidal. It is survival. And it is only fair.
Defending one's women and children and homeland from a determined, and in this case even suicidal / homicidal / genocidal death cult is not genocide.
Spare us the incoherent moral equivalency routine.
They, (the dark-ages death-cult jihadi savages of islam's problem elements and the cowardly islamic leaders egging them on) are the ones advocating genocide, not the modern world trying to get islam to stop already.
If islam will not clean it's own house of it's problem elements, the civilized world has no choice but to make it too costly, too painful for islam to tolerate them.
Of course they don't all hate us.
I have not seen anyone here ever say that and I would never say that.
It's (mostly) irrelevant because it doesn't take all of them to do great harm in the world, does it.
It's also irrelevant what "some people in the middle east" say to westerners in words, especially considering the practice of Al-taqiyya in order to deceive. (Just say all-ta-kill-ya if that helps. It's even still accurate that way).
Thousands of muslims mouthing thousands of words of reassurance cannot begin to matter more than countless acts of violence and murder, not only through history but now especially against other muslims.
When so many victims, (lately at least) of your problem elements are other muslims, you have some severe issues to address.
Islam's failure to stand up to those elements on it's own and strongly enough to stop them is the reason the modern world may have to do whatever it takes, because the free and civilized world will not be beaten back to the dark ages by primitive savages.
I hope islam can find enough honor, courage, humility and common decency to condemn and police and stop it's own problem elements. I really do.
I support opening eyes, but only up to a point.
The primary reason Iraq has seen such a remarkable transformation is because, with the the new leadership and tactics of "the surge" enough there finally realized that we were quite other than what their leaders, (with the support of the greater Aid and Comfort Media), brainwashed them into believing, so I know much can be done short of harsher measures.
I would like to see the Iranians, for instance, remove their wackos from power, and believe many there do so hate those vile cowards...
I would even like to help them...
But islam must do it's part, and as of today we see no mass demonstrations of muslims renouncing their hateful killers and we hear no significant change of tone from hateful islamic leaders. On the contrary, we see them only further escalating tensions and proclamations of death to the west.
At this late hour, considering the countless acts of brutality committed in so many places against so many different people...
Is it any wonder some are beginning to say enough already, or else?
If it comes to what it is heading for, the blood of it will be on islam's hands, not those who mostly just wish to live and let live... but who also intend to survive.
And who do not intend to be enslaved by this or any other evil.
Enough.
Thanks.
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